Bail

posted January 7th, 2014, 2:01 am


average rating: None
post a comment
author comments
view GreenKrog's profile

July 28th, 2013, 5:45 pm

GreenKrog

reply

Getting so drunk that you don't even know where you are when you wake up? NOT ALL RIGHT.
Getting so drunk that you can't fight back against people who would take advantage? NOT ALL RIGHT.

There are ways to relax, and that level of drinking isn't a positive one. You deserve better. At any age.

Also, yeah, the arm in 3 is borked. Snarf.

end of message
user comments

January 7th, 2014, 12:20 pm

ladyarkitekt (Guest)

reply

But no matter how drunk, no one should have to defend themselves against something like that. I myself was in a similar position of "can't fight back" (albeit not drunk) when I was sexually assaulted.

I agree, Annie shouldn't drink, but more for her own health and concerns than anything, not because it's "Not all right" to drink beyond being able to fight back.

end of message
view GreenKrog's profile

January 7th, 2014, 2:07 pm

GreenKrog

reply

@ladyarkitekt: I didn't mean to imply that Annie should be in a position of blame. I am saying that she should know better than to put herself in that situation.

The unfortunate reality of life is that if you put yourself in a position to be taken advantage of, there will be a person out there who will do that. No one should HAVE to, but that isn't how this world works. This is true for all people - gay rape is on a huge upswing in some places because so many people allow themselves to be lulled into a false sense of invincibility

Especially in her situation, it isn't a matter of liver/kidney health (which she already has problems with) but that the wrong person at the wrong time could end up in her actual death.

It isn't all right for anyone to be in a situation where they are defenseless. Though, please note: if you are with people you trust implicently, you are not defenseless - you have people defending you. Up until this morning, Annie had nobody really looking out for her, as far as she knew.

end of message
view CuteDress&TwinPonytails's profile

January 7th, 2014, 2:40 pm

CuteDress&TwinPonytails

reply

Has Vic redeemed himself for all of the bad things that he has said to Tony in the past ?

end of message
view GreenKrog's profile

January 7th, 2014, 2:44 pm

GreenKrog

reply

@CuteDress&TwinPonytails: How is protecting a cute cheerleader from an assault in any way balanced against relentless emotional cruelty to a teammate? Even if he knew it was Tony/Annie, is protecting her like this vindication?

I think it is a good start, but it is a far, far cry from an actual apology. Moreover, what about Monday? Will he go back to being a jerk to Tony?

end of message

January 7th, 2014, 6:45 pm

ladyarkitekt (Guest)

reply

@GreenKrog: "I am saying that she should know better than to put herself in that situation."

That, however, is blame, same as saying a girl shouldn't wear a short skirt outside of a "safe place", or should ask someone to protect her when walking alone. Saying "doing x is not okay" shifts the blame, rather than saying "Even doing x, this should not happen to you." There is no such thing as inviting something like that to happen to you.

What Annie did was perfectly all right. She had every right to do what she did and expect to not be assaulted. Is what she did the smartest thing to do? No, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be able to do so, or should be ashamed of it at all.

end of message
view GreenKrog's profile

January 7th, 2014, 7:04 pm

GreenKrog

reply

@ladyarkitekt: This is of course going to create contraversy, but consider this;

You remember in Die Hard with a Vengeance, when John Mclean put on a sandwich board saying "I hate N*ggers"? You are right, he should be able to walk through the neighbourhood, his freedom of speech protected (note: he is not insinuating action on the hate, therefore, it is protected speech). Would ANYONE be shocked if he had been stabbed or shot by someone who decided that this was a good opportunity to act on their own impulses? Is he really not inviting something bad to happen to him? That was sort of the premise of the bad guy.

I'm not saying she should be ashamed. I'm not saying anyone is remotely justified in acting on her poor judgement. In an *ideal world* she has every right to expect to not be assaulted. But then again, she also shouldn't expect a homophobic orderly to attack her just because she is coming to terms with who she is. But this is the real world, and this kind of thing happens, because it isn't ideal. Should she be hurt? No! Is there a level of implicent action in doing something inherently risky based on real life conditions? YES. Blaming the victim is wrong, but assuming the victim is entirely blameless is naive.

Please remember all of this on April 18th.

end of message

January 7th, 2014, 9:15 pm

Ave (Guest)

reply

Ignoring the blame argument involved, it's not okay for Annie to do this because, for one, she's a minor and therefore shouldn't drink; for another, drinking to such a point is damaging to the body; for yet another, it's been shown she tends to blab secrets when she's drunk, and she's with people who don't know that she is Tony and could very well take it very very poorly.

end of message

January 8th, 2014, 1:48 am

ladyarkitekt (Guest)

reply

@GreenKrog: the victim -is- blameless. No one asks to be attacked against their will, or to be raped, no matter what actions they take. If I don't fight back, or can't, it doesn't matter- because it doesn't change a thing.

To answer your question, no, the person in question should not be blamed for the attack against him. Unless he put another in a place where self-defense is to be expected- threat of life or property, there is no defense to him being attacked, or place blame on him. Sure, you can think he is an asshole, what he did was not smart, but he has no blame in the result. The weight is on the other person who took action- and very well could have left him alone. Its not a matter of free speech, its a matter of increasing retaliation beyond a reasonable level.

Same with Annie, or me, in the case of my rape- we did not "provoke" rape, there is no blame on either of us in these circumstances. The decision to violate anothers' consent did not at all come from us.

Now, is it great that Annie is underage and drinking? No. Is it great that she is putting her body at risk? No. I agree, bad idea overall. But never, ever, is inebriation, or state of helplessness ever a reason to place any blame on the victim of rape or assault (or near victim).

end of message

January 8th, 2014, 2:03 am

ladyarkitekt (Guest)

reply

@ladyarkitekt: And yes, sorry, I take this personally. Because I've been raped, more than one of my partners has been raped, and using any excuse to place the blame on us for what was a clear violation of our sexual consent, is like blaming people who are attacked for being gay or trans.

And there is no denying it happens- I know that more than most. But the blame for that lies nowhere with the victim- one does not "accidentally" rape, and there is nothing forcing a person to rape. To place blame solely on the perpetrator is not naive, to pretend that anyone other than the perpetrator of rape or assault "made" the rape or assault happen is.

end of message
view GreenKrog's profile

January 8th, 2014, 2:28 am

GreenKrog

reply

@ladyarkitekt: I wish I could private message but you are using a guest account. We have differing views and I strongly believe some future storyline may be inappropriate based on that. I have no interest at all in hurting anyone's feelings or making light of anything. Unfortunately, I am unable to change what is written and I fear it will end poorly between us.

And now I feel terrible. Sorry

end of message

January 8th, 2014, 3:24 am

lady_arkitekt (Guest)

reply

@GreenKrog: I would love to discuss more. I will look into an account come morning.

I love the comic, I have to say. However, I highly suggest, before making statements on rape or assault, to speak to those who have been victims, especially those in similar situations.

My mind continues to equate the two scenarios you posted- did Annie, in turn, ask to be assaulted for dressing the way she did? She could have not. She knew it was risky. Is she to blame for being assaulted by that orderly, by others who have since? I think most would agree not. Indeed, that seemed to be the whole point of that arc. Why, then, is rape any different?

It is not on us trans people to pass to make others comfortable. Its not up to us to try to make us "harder targets", it is on the people who hurt us to deal with not being able to hurt us. If they cannot prevent themselves from hurting us, that is on them, not us.

It is not on a rape victim to put themselves in a position to not be raped. It is not up to them to make themselves "harder targets" for predators. It is on rapists, or potential rapists, to understand consent is consent, and is to not be violated. If they do not understand that, it is on them, not us.

Just as, despite me posting here, and my screen name being fairly traceable, does not mean I should be blamed if someone lights my house on fire because they disagree with me, and I have "made an easy target" of myself.

In all situations, the person could have walked away, regardless of how drunk or sober their victim, how straight or not, how easy to trace or hard to trace they were. The crimes were not perpetuated by the victims. The crimes, simply, were perpetuated by the rapists, the assaulters, the arsonists. No matter how hard or easy we "made" this for them, that will is theirs alone, they made the choice to do what they did, no one else.

And I'm glad to say this in a public forum, because its something I think people need to hear, especially those who do blame themselves for their own rape or assault. Maybe I won't change your mind, but perhaps I can reach others, and its a conversation worth having.

This is not my comic. I can't say how it should be written. But saying what is written is written... You control that. You can rewrite, or unwrite, or write as originally intended with a side note about your views in the comments. But I personally don't buy "its too late to change it", because it isn't until its up on the site.

I personally think you'll lose lots of readers if you play it out as blaming the victim, especially of something as traumatic and life-ruining as rape. I know I will likely stop if that does occur, which is a shame, as I'd love to hear Annie's story though. But it is insulting to us victims to be blamed, no matter how minisculely, for our rapes or assaults. Even if that is not your intent, it is so.

end of message
view GreenKrog's profile

January 8th, 2014, 3:11 pm

GreenKrog

reply

@lady_arkitekt: I'm going to have a final thought and them stop trying. I get way too tired from everything these days to keep trying.

You are making a pretty huge assumption that I have neither spoken to, or personally been, sexually assaulted.

I am not into victim blaming. But I am not so idealist as to say the choices we make are irrelevant. If a black gay Jew walks into a Neo-Nazi meeting with his boyfriend and starts making out, they have made a poor life choice. Should they be hurt for it? No. Will they? Probably.

Are you truly going to tell me that your daughter, niece, granddaughter, shouldn't be told to watch their situation? Because ideally it doesn't matter? That if they were going out with a known potential predator, you wouldn't want them to make the best choice?
Our choices do matter. Even if they shouldn't, they do. And I'm not about to back down from that.

Last - the relevant arcs take roughly two months to tell. I can't rewrite them or remove them because of the toll it would take on my broken mind. Either it would require me to take down about a year of posts (ultimately spelling the end) or I can try to present that our choices have results in a real world.

Like I said, I can't talk any more in any of thus. I would just be rehashing, and I'm already barely able to keep standing as it is.

end of message

January 8th, 2014, 4:19 pm

LadyArkitekt (Guest)

reply

@GreenKrog: I am not assuming you don't know or haven't been. As I have stated, many people continue to blame themselves for what has happened long afterwards (I know I did for months).

Perhaps I am missing your point, because of what I read into what you said.

Your statement reads heavily of "You get what you asked for", as in "You shouldn't drink, because being drunk is invitation for rape." That is, in a nutshell, victim blaming. That is my point, however, perhaps I am misreading what you are saying.

What you are trying to say, I suspect, is that a person can drink to being drunk and expect not to be raped. A person who does so is not to be blamed for their rape, or told that their actions led to their rape.

I think you and I approach the subject of personal responsibility differently, however.

Your approach is that a person is responsible for keeping themselves safe. If they are unsafe, what occurs to them is partially their responsibility

My approach is to be risk aware. To be aware of the risks, but able to make those choices without shame, or blame. In the case of rape or assault, a person can be as aware of their risk and "safe" as they wish, but can still end up raped or assaulted. Rape while drunk is no different from rape while sober. Rape is rape is rape- it's the potential rapists' responsibility to not rape, not the responsibility of the victim to prevent it from occurring.

I will not tell anyone, my child, partner, grandchild, -anyone- that any action they take means they are "asking" to be raped. I will teach them to be aware of the situation, but that there they should not be blamed or shamed for their choices, that any choice, no matter how "slutty" they choose to be, or how often they choose to drink, is an excuse for those awful things to happen to them.

To me, this is the difference between saying something is a "bad idea" and something that "shouldn't be done, or x will happen". The first says, "Yes, this is something you should be aware of the risk for", the latter says "you are partially responsible if x happens to you, because you made a 'poor choice'. It wouldn't have happened if only you had done y instead of x."

Our choices don't give permission or "ask for" rape, or abuse, or assault. Yes, our choices matter, because all of our choices affect us. But we shouldn't be told that our choices ever excuse or grant any form of permission for people do without our consent.

Some things, such as the weather and other people, are beyond our control. Pretending that dressing moderately, or not drinking, means that someone will not rape you, that you are somehow safer, is ignorant of all the rapes (the vast majority) that happen while sober, modestly dressed, by someone close and known.

This is what I am reading from it, from the language that you have used. Maybe I am mistaken. Your claim that you don't want to blame the victims seems to point that maybe your point and mine are closer than you or I think.

I simply find it sad that more attention is given to telling woman how to "protect themselves" from rape, and saying how a person should and should not act to avoid it (which often approaches from the standpoint of the least common form of rape), instead of reminding people that hey, if another person can't consent, don't do it. Instead, in our culture, it's too common to say "Well, if she didn't want to get raped, she shouldn't have drank so much, or worn short shorts, or hug her rapist.", which is something your statements above seem too close to for comfort. And those kind of statement implicitly slide the responsibility for assault from the perpetrator to the victim.

end of message

November 21st, 2014, 9:43 pm

Lex-Kat (Guest)

reply

The difference is, one assumes the worse, and believes in being aware of the bad things that could happen if they place themselves in harms way. The other seems to assume that because nothing /should/ happen, nothing will happen. Or that when the something does happen, that no one should ask "Why did you go to that bar and get drunk, without a friend to watch your back? Why were you so naive to think that you wouldn't get hurt?"

The answer: "Because everyone told me I have the right to not be hurt."

Just because you have the right, doesn't mean another person won't try to take that from you. Life isn't fair. We should not be filling our children with thoughts that it is.

Should someone be raped/molested/attacked for any reason at all?

The answer is obviously no.

Will that stop someone from doing such horrible things?

Again, the obvious answer is NO.

But there is such a thing as personal responsibility. That is, knowing that around every corner there is potential to be hurt. That there is as much evil in this wold as there is good, though it may seem at times that the balance is out of whack.

The only way to do that is to not place yourself in harms way. So when you go to a bar, don't get so drunk that you can't think straight. And you should always go with a friend or two, minimum. One of which should agree to not drink very much, or nothing at all if they have a hard time keeping their wits about them after one drink.

NOTE: Nothing in this code says anything about how short/tight your skirt/shirt/shorts are. Be free to wear anything you want. Safety doesn't come from clothes, it comes from friends protecting you, and even that is a 100% guarantee.

And no one EVER is "asking for it". But they are being stupid if they don't take precautions.

EDIT: And one last thing, just to be clear: Yes, men need to be taught to respect women. But just look at any website where the subject of a woman's right to her own body is braought up, and you will know it will be a long hard road. Until the road is truly safe, stop throwing yourself into traffic to prove how bad it is.

end of message
post a comment