Get Out

posted April 29th, 2015, 2:01 am


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view GreenKrog's profile

May 10th, 2014, 2:10 am

GreenKrog

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I really hate the term she-male. It dehumanizes trans people. And Annie is using it against herself. She doesn't feel like a human.

..she is using Vic's full name. When is it ever a good thing when someone does that?

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April 29th, 2015, 8:17 am

Siva (Guest)

One's full name

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"And the winner is... Siva Smith!" Except for the part where that's my 'net name.'

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April 29th, 2015, 10:42 am

4C51

Hairy

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Annie Annie Annie, cis women get facial hair too you know, sometimes a lot of it.

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April 29th, 2015, 1:38 pm

Guest

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A lot of women, hands down, would love a gift like that. Electrolysis isn't just for facial hair. Working at a Spa, it is known.

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April 29th, 2015, 11:22 pm

Anon (Guest)

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Annie really needs to stop being an emotional wreck for a second and think about why she's feeling this way. She's not being rational. Getting offended when someone is an asshole to you on purpose is normal. Getting offended by someone doing the wrong thing with good intentions is just stupid.

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April 29th, 2015, 11:26 pm

GreenKrog

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@Anon: There is nothing rational about being transgender. How can you expect her to deal with it on a rational level when her lover when all she knows is 'I'm a freak, and now the one person I want to not treat me like one is treating me like one'?

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April 30th, 2015, 7:32 pm

Anon (Guest)

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@GreenKrog: Everything can be dealt with rationally, and being transgender is no exception. It may be a little more complicated than most things, but there's still some logic behind it.

Vic was genuinely trying to be nice. Odds are Annie will be investing in electrolysis at some point, and that's not cheap. Financially helping her through her transition sounds like a very nice thing to do, but Annie is currently in such a horrible mood that she interprets that act as selfish and insulting.

Simply put, she's not thinking straight, hence why she needs to take a step back and start questioning her thoughts and emotions before she drives away everyone that loves her.

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June 25th, 2015, 10:42 pm

Lex-Kat (Guest)

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Honestly, I don't get Annie right now. I would love to be given a gift like that. I'd use it on my eyebrows. :)

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June 8th, 2017, 4:28 am

sunspark

i absolutely get her

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Oh yes. Vic's gift was very well-intended (in fact, the way I did it my electro actually cost MORE than my SRS) but OMG, Vic, have you ever MET this girl? She's like most teenage girls--very emotional--and worse: a trans girl, so totally unsure of herself to begin with, able to be set off so easily it's scary. He did nothing "wrong"; he did something monumentally *stupid*.

But I still want to press the puberty thing because in all candor I just don't get it:

She started on anti-androgens at fifteen, before most of male puberty had begun, as she was a late bloomer. She has been on them since, adding to them estrogen to feminize her body. We've seen considerable evidence (despite what he mother says) that the E is working (hips, breasts, etc.). There is no reason I can think of that the anti-androgen should NOT be working; that is, her male puberty should have STOPPED. There should have been no further deepening of her voice, no adam's apple growth, no reason for her hands to be "getting" big, etc...because while anti-androgens can't undo what has already been done, their entire function is to STOP "the processes already started." So confused...

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June 8th, 2017, 10:39 am

GreenKrog

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@sunspark: Most of the articles I want to look at are behind a paywall, but the abstracts all agree that development of secondary sexual characteristics begin as early at 9. There has been a radical shift as to how early people begin to develop.

No sources as to how they got the data, but this one has an nice chart indicating mean age of starting to develop facial hair (15) and deepening voice (13).
http://www.msdmanuals.com/professional/genitourinary-disorders/male-reproductive-endocri nology-and-related-disorders/male-reproductive-endocrinology#v1050733

I like this one better because it shows sources and peer review, adding the mean age of 14 for voice cracking and acne, 14.9 years for facial hair.
https://patient.info/doctor/normal-and-abnormal-puberty

And here is a surprisingly useful abstract that isn't behind a paywall indicating that the average age of puberty has dropped by as much as 5 years since the 1800s in developing nations and by 3 years in North America. You will note that even the average time in figure 1 for America has changed by a full half year between 1960 and 2000 - that half year distance is within the range of your own life and development.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2465479/

Look, I get what you are saying and why you have such a problem with the timeline. But it is valid and conforms to the ages and averages of the standard population. The impact of male puberty on Annie was halted, but not before some damage was done. You have seen her with 2+ days of stubble - it is still a slight smattering, characteristic of what would be expected from the onset of early facial hair development. Likewise, her voice, while not necessarily having cracked, does have thickening of the vocal cords in correspondence with the mean.

Interesting note, prepubescent weight loss in both Annie and Lexi marks the time range demonstrated by the Tanner scale. If you pay attention to Lexi's back story to the times when she had issues with Wendy and Cindi (you haven't met them yet), you will see that this development matches the timeline.

I can find more links if necessary, but I hope this is sufficient to demonstrate that I am writing within the realms of reason for demographic sampling of medical studies.

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June 8th, 2017, 1:03 pm

sunspark

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@GreenKrog:

First of all, thank you for such dedicated attention to my comment! It's impressive and I'm actually kind of flattered.

The thing is: I'm not complaining at all about what you said earlier. I'm all about granting the author her premise, and besides I've taught high school and have seen many boys with early puberty. That's not what I meant at all. So sorry you misunderstood. You explained that before and I therefore totally accept it.

What I meant here was to comment on the apparently ONGOING development of her pubescence. While the adam's apple has never before been mentioned and therefore can be assumed as canon, though I don't honestly have the faintest notion of when they develop, the ongoing growth of her hands--unless this is a perception problem--does concern me. Her *body* growth is one thing: she should be experiencing pubescent growth normal for a female of her family, but we have no clue what that is. (I'd have been about six inches shorter had I begun hormones at fifteen.) But her hands? They should only be growing at normal female rates commensurate with body growth.

Dan monitors her hormone levels monthly, as he should, so he'd know if T levels were still too high and adjust her dosage. So what causes this? Or IS it all in her mind? (Wouldn't be the first...or hundredth...time.)

PS: I must again state how much I love this webcomic. Last night was the third consecutive night on which it kept me up until nearly dawn reading simply because I was so caught up I could not stop. (I don't know how some of these readers whip through it in a day; I'm *savoring* it. Your artistic flourishes, whether or not you are Picasso, are worth the pausing. And besides, my heart keeps breaking with these characters, all of whom are *people I know*. I mean that: they are me or my family or kids I've taught. I KNOW them. Rushing is impossible when you are terrified or in tears or (yes) squeeing.) And I realize that the strips I am discussing are years old and that, as I write, I have no clue what has happened since. :-)

PPS: I had a flash of a crazy "twist" idea that you probably would never use. What if Annie's real mother was exceptionally tall with very large hands and spent her life being falsely accused of being a boy and beaten for it? After having been attacked many times, maybe even hospitalized, she might have sought the solace of a religious experience... Not that this would make anyone forgive her; it would only *explain* her.

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June 8th, 2017, 2:28 pm

GreenKrog

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@sunspark: Fuck me, I wrote this long rambling reply and the site was like NOPE ITS GONE NOW. But know that I did spend a good 15 min typing it. Which I no longer have. So I will have to summarize.

I love metrics and epidemiology. And I love knowing that I could be wrong and being able to improve it by learning. So while I thought I knew about puberty, I needed to KNOW that I knew about it.

Then I made a snide comment that essentially said 'Annie's development HAS stopped, but she thinks it hasnt.' She is talking while depressed, and she is just going to see what she sees, regardless of if it is the truth or not. Half this comic is Annie's inability to get over her internal problems, and this conversation is a demonstration of that.

Then I ranted for a while about how I've never reread the archives because of how difficult it was to write it the first time. After my usual session on mondays, I am an emotional wreck.

The last thing though;
Have you actually noticed Annie's mothers typeface? Or how tall she is compared to a fully mature Bill or (when Annie grows more) Annie's height? Or the width of her shoulders? You are not as off base as you think you might be. She is based off of my own biological mother, a strong valkyrian woman of northern stock who lifts couches at a whim.
The difference is, Annie's mother is also heftier. Right when Annie was coming out, if you recall, someone mentioned to her that rounder women, especially rounder transwomen, are seen as more feminine due to the curves. So while she is larger in height and width, having her also larger in weight has probably alleviated any problems with these things. Likewise, Saskatoon and southern Alberta tends to have fairly big white people to begin with, so it seems unlikely she would have really had issues.
I then made some comments on intelligence and religion. Which I probably don't need to make.

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June 8th, 2017, 3:11 pm

sunspark

Lazarus

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I have a little extension called Lazarus on my Chrome. (Don't know if you use Chrome; it may be available on other browsers.) It is pretty amazing and does what its name implies: it brings things back from the dead. Example: the message you just replied to? I had just finished typing it and then as I hit the "submit" button it vanished entirely. Ordinarily that would mean I'd need to give up or reconstruct it from memory, but with Lazarus all I needed to do was open the "Post Comment" box and click on the Lazarus icon. The first line of every comment I've made dropped down, and I clicked on the first, and latest, one, and the whole thing was restored!

I highly recommend it.

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June 22nd, 2017, 10:22 pm

claredin

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Hmmm... so I was just discussing this with my partner, who is also trans, and we both agree that Vic was only doing something out of the goodness of his heart. If we were to receive this gift, we'd be very grateful because we know that something like this is very expensive and will help get rid of something that causes a lot of anxiety. At least it's not as bad as something utilitarian, like a vacuum cleaner!

But I get why Annie would be mad. I just think if she thought about it more, she'd see that Vic was trying to help rather than intentional cause her more anxiety.

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