Petition

posted November 8th, 2015, 2:01 am


average rating: 1.00
post a comment
author comments
view GreenKrog's profile

January 28th, 2015, 4:52 pm

GreenKrog

reply

I have some idea of why this ended the way it ended. I welcome everyone else's guesses!

Sometimes all it takes to rally a people is a single person to hold the cause high. Think about martyrs, that is what they hope for. Leelah Acorn, for example. Or in fiction, Katniss from Hunger Games.
Sometimes all it takes is a single person standing strong.

end of message
user comments

November 8th, 2015, 11:56 pm

Yan Mouson

reply

Your comment is... honestly kind of contradictory. Martyrs are rarely a single person standing strong; more often, they're simply victims who happened to get enough attention that everyone rallied behind them. Both of the examples you used are not people who held the cause high. In the case of Leelah Alcorn, she suffered to a point where people woke up and realized our society was insane. In the case of Katniss, she was just a scared girl doing whatever she could to keep herself and her friend alive, and somehow everyone else interpreted that as an act of rebellion.

Just thought that was odd.

end of message
view GreenKrog's profile

November 9th, 2015, 12:55 am

GreenKrog

reply

@Yan Mouson:
Martyr: a person who is killed because of their religious or other beliefs
--
It is an act of rebellion to take control of one's own life and kill yourself rather than continue to suffer through pain. Her goal in making it public was to try to gain attention, which she did with the American anti-reform policy. Though she killed herself, Leelah died for her beliefs. I would qualify that as martyrdom.

Def 2 (verb): cause great pain or distress to. Using this in combination with the primary definition would define Katniss, as the story develops, to be part of a systemic attack on her people. While she was not alone in this, she became the figurehead of the movement, and was therefore attacked, or caused great pain or distress.

Perhaps you would like to go with the wiki definition;
A martyr (Greek: μάρτυς, mártys, "witness"; stem μάρτυρ-, mártyr-) is somebody who suffers persecution and/or death for advocating, renouncing, refusing to renounce, and/or refusing to advocate a belief or cause of either a religious or secular nature. Most martyrs are considered holy or are respected by their followers, becoming a symbol of exceptional leadership and heroism. Martyrs play significant roles in religions. Similarly, martyrs have had notable effects in secular life, including specific figures such as Socrates, as well as in politics and Chinese culture.

Would you not say that both of these figures became notably effective in secular life for advocating and refusing to denounce their belief or cause? Did Katniss, while not a particularly useful person, not become a symbol of heroism?

Annie, likewise, has not done anything exceptional. She existed, and she fought back where others were unable to. So now people see her as exceptional, and a symbol of heroism that they can follow. Her advocacy came in the form of a woman taking control of her life and fighting back against what so many of her classmates were unable to. Now she is being pushed forward as that symbol to lead.

Care you give me YOUR definition of martyr?

*drops mic*

(Edit: I believe that those who take their own lives due to how they are treated count as being killed. TDOR is starting to include those who have died of suicide in addition to those who have been killed by others. Just figured I would clarify that, so you can draw a comparison to why I say that Leelah was a martyr in this scenario even though her life was not technically ended by another human)

end of message

November 9th, 2015, 4:08 am

Yan Mouson

reply

@GreenKrog: Actually, I'd argue that not only was Katniss Everdeen's main act of rebellion not actually an act of rebellion, that's in fact a major plot point. It's made very clear in the books that, when she decided to commit suicide with Peeta, she was fully aware that the Capitol would chicken out at the last second. The whole thing was a gambit to save both herself and Peeta.

And then, of course, everyone assumed she was really going to do it and took it as an act of defiance. Granted, it is sort of an act of defiance to trick the government into not murdering you and your friend, but that doesn't change the fact that she didn't intend it that way. The story isn't about how Katniss heroically became a symbol for a rebellion, it's about how the rebellion made her into that symbol in largely dishonest ways.

Hunger Games is a story about how the media influences public perception of a conflict and, in the third book, it's made very clear that the rebels are as bad as the Capitol on that point (and many others). The rebels didn't even want Katniss to be a hero people could rally behind; they wanted to fake it. Katniss wanted to fight, mostly for vengeful reasons, yet the rebels kept her away from the front lines because they thought she looked good in front of a camera.

But, enough analysis of Hunger Games. I get your point.

end of message
post a comment