Pills and Knives

posted November 17th, 2015, 2:01 am


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January 28th, 2015, 6:03 pm

GreenKrog

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I can't remember if I have told this story or not. Probably not.

When I was put in the hospital the most recent time, during a mixed (mostly manic) episode, I was told to go to bed. It was very late, I was tired, of course I should go to bed. But because I was told to, I didn't. Here I was, committed to a place where I literally had no power - I needed one last bit of power that I could control. So I stood there, beside the bed, in the dark, not getting in to bed, just so that I could retain my power.
But then, I realized that I didn't actually have any control. Think about it, the control I thought I had was rebelling against others, except, I was still powerless to DO anything in my rebellion. If I had gone to sleep, regardless of what they said, I would be doing so under my own power, right? So then why not just go to bed?

This relates to the first time I was in the hospital. I refused to eat. I had nothing left to hold on to, no control of myself, but I wouldn't eat (partially because of depression, partially for control purposes). When I finally did eat, it wasn't because they made me, but because I decided to. So in my decision, was it really me making the choice? Wouldn't it have been my choice to eat when they fed me to begin with? What difference is there to eating/sleeping when they say to, and when I chose to, if I would chose to of my own accord if they didn't tell me to?

It is convoluted, but that is how I got Annie asking about what it means to truly be in control.

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November 17th, 2015, 4:11 am

Yan Mouson

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"Control" is a bit of a catch 22. When you live in society, you play by its rules, and thus aren't in control. Decide not to play by the rules and you end up in jail, and then try to tell me you're in control.

On a smaller scale, we also have little to no control over our own bodies. We're fragile meatbags that need sustenance. Choose not to eat and you're going to die. Are dead people really in control of anything?

And on a deeper level, what counts as control anyway? If you rebel against everyone and everything, isn't your rebellion still something you do in response to others? Does it really count as your decision, then?

Honestly, I think it's necessary to a healthy life to admit that we're never really in control. We're the product of our experiences, of the world around us and of the bodies we inhabit. A very wide variety of factors dictates everything we do, and I think the best way to live is to enjoy the illusion of control that we have while remaining aware of the fact that it is an illusion.

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November 17th, 2015, 8:21 am

CuteDress&TwinPonytails

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Maybe it's the difference between relative control and absolute control. Everyone has relative control, within the limits that Yan has mentioned, but who has absolute control, so as to command gravity not to control them, and then be able to drift away into the air, unfettered ?

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November 18th, 2015, 1:12 pm

Yan Mouson

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@CuteDress&TwinPonytails: Uh, the Wright brothers?

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November 17th, 2015, 9:27 am

apersonaplaceathing (Guest)

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It really depends on your definition of control. Just because there are consequences, doesn't mean there isn't control.

I do agree that we're a product of our experiences and the world around us but we're also a product of our own decisions and how we react to the environment around us. Do I decide how I process information? No, but I do make choices on what to do with said information. For Yan's smaller scale, sure we need sustenance to live, so if we want to live, then we need to fulfill that requirement, otherwise we can make the decision to just let our body whither away and die.

I go to work every day, I could make the decision not to at any point in time. I do it because I need to pay bills, and if I don't go, I won't be able to do that. There's a consequence so logic dictates that there really isn't a choice but the reality is, there is.

Just because there are consequences doesn't mean there isn't a choice. That is a form of control. Though as Ponytails said, it's not absolute control. No one has absolute control.

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November 17th, 2015, 1:06 pm

Yan Mouson

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@apersonaplaceathing: I'm not saying there aren't choices. I'm saying the consequences often involve the loss of control, resulting in a catch 22: it is impossible to retain control over all things because any attempt to retain that control results in a loss of control elsewhere.

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